If you're saved by faith, why get baptized?
Good question.
For years we didn't know. All anyone could seem to say was that it was an outward expression of obedience to God. Jesus was baptized, he often modeled the life we should lead...to show us the way of rightousness.
Okay- but that still doesn't tell me of why I have to do it.
If I'm saved, then I'm saved. This is a work. Why do it?
Then it clicked! Our pastor, shown above, said this...
"You go down in the water, like Jesus dying on the cross, and raised from your sins, like Jesus being raised from the dead."
It is another step toward commitment. Devoting yourself to Christ. Surrendering your own daily desires for His awesome plan.
Good trade, I say!
Sin...Substitute...Surrender. He took the punishment that should have been mine.
You can't put your face in the light without turning away from the darkness.
I will keep my eyes on Jesus. He will never allow me to be tempted without providing a way out. The Bible says so...and I believe it.
Disclosure Note: The described religion above is not intended to be "forced" upon anyone by the author of this blog, Wavelength. It is simply what Kathy believes to be true. I have my reasons.
posted by Kathy at 10:01 AM
13 Comments:
Kathy - great pics great post. I continue to be in awe of your sharing and the care you take to present your story.
Baptism (or more appropriately) being saved, is one central reason why I am no longer Christian. I simply cannot believe that being saved is a pre-condition to inheriting the kingdom of God. Th easiest analogy I can think of involves a hypothetical person who is Christ-like in every way but who lives in a part of the world where there is no Christianity. To be continued...
12:13 PM
In some respects then, salvation becomes another example of Western privilege (although this is changing with each passing day - as well-intentioned Christians share Christianity with parts of the world who are otherwise not exposed to it). Still, to me, the salvation requirement is therefore absurd (or God is merciless and continues MFN status in heaven as he does on earth - which makes NO sense). To be continued...
12:15 PM
Anyway, I admire and envy you for the strength of your relationship with the Lord and for the devotion you show to your faith. In both respects you are admirable.
I also have to say that while we have disagreed in the past, I appreciate how your Christianity is primarily love based - although I might do you the disservice of guessing at your feelings on topics like same sex marriage, I really enjoy that most of the time you write about loving your neighbor and the beauty of friendships - very Christian themes. Sorry to hijack your comments today; I lost my head.
12:23 PM
sorry Duf, I just caught your comments.
Here's where I'm coming from as it goes for baptism...
Baptism is something you must "do", therefore it can't be a requirement to be saved.
Christ died on the cross so that we would be free from sin. Sin that we could never erase of our own doing.
It had to be a gift. We could never earn it.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God- not the result of works, so that no one my boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9
However, I do acknowlege this verse as arguement in your favor...
"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the Kingdom of God, unless he is born again of water and the Spirit." John 3:5
Still I believe in this...
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not parish but have eternal life." John 3:16
wait a second....
"I simply cannot believe that being saved is a pre-condition to inheriting the kingdom of God"
Duf, what are you saying? Do mean to say just being a "good person" should get you into Heaven?
Yikes!
Saten gets the ties man. That's ALL over the Bible.
I know what you mean about thousands who have not heard the gospel...Jesus thought of that... hence, the great commission, but there's about a million questions as to why things are the way they are. And it doesn't seem fair, but lean not on your own understand. In thy ways acknowlede Him and he shall direct your path.
Also- thanks for the kind personal words reguarding my character. :-)
1:31 PM
I am saying that being Christian - in actions - even if you've never heard of Jesus Christ should be enough to get you into heaven. There are literally millions (probably near 1 billion people) who have never heard of Jesus Christ. If belief is required in order to inherit the Kingdom of God, then - to say the least - those folks are at a tremendous disadvantage. I simply cannot believe that God would craft such a system. You could almost boil it down to people who have heard of Jesus and believe but spend their life judging and coveting and worshiping money would have a better chance of going to heaven than someone who never violated the ten commandments, but also never heard of them. That just does not make sense. Not even a little bit.
2:39 PM
At this time, I would like to define sin as it was explained to me by a previous pastor...
uhemm..
Sin- A willful transgression against the known will of God.
This makes sense. If you know what is wrong and you do it anyway...that is sin.
As far as the billion plus people who don't know about Jesus...it has been said that Christians do a diservice to them by bringing the Gospel to cultures where adultry or murder is not against their social rules.
However,
I like to think that God, in His uncomprehendable being, has it all under control and takes all things into careful consideration on judgement day. That would be Mercy.
one more thing...
"I am saying that being Christian - in actions - even if you've never heard of Jesus Christ should be enough to get you into heaven."
well it isn't. Being a Christian is not about actions. Actions are the results of being a Christian. God is very specific about this. The door is narrow. This may not seem "fair" to you, but considering the attempts of humans to be consistantly fair have failed...I'd rather be judged in God's court. He is after all, perfect.
I believe in a Holy, Awesome, Just, Merciful, Righteous, Pure, but above all Loving Creator.
Thanks for your comments Duf- it's been nice talking to you about God. Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts! You've given me much to think about.
4:25 PM
Here's something to consider, Kathy.
What if the Christians have it wrong?
Of course, you know I mean zero disrespect. I'm not one to think poorly on people who have a different set of beliefs than me.
At least I try not to. :)
7:16 AM
Kathy - I hope you know I'm not debating you. I'm just trying to understand. Are you saying that beliefs are more important than actions? Are you saying that they are as important?
7:25 AM
DJ,
Yeah, I've thought of that, but hey- what do I have to loose? If I'm wrong and the world is a fluke floating around in space and nothing actually happens after death...well then, I've lead a good life because of my beliefs. But if I'm right, I go to Heaven and hear my Jesus say...welcome good and faithful servent. It's a win, win situation.
:-)
Duf,
Which came first the chicken or the egg?
Though I do believe non-Christians can have very high morals while many so called Christians don't...I'm saying that a good Christian will naturally follow with loving actions. I'm not saying that Christians (even the good ones) are perfect. Ha! but really, I try to do the right things because of my love for God. He is at the center of my being. I live for Him...not me.
I hope that helps. Happy Day!
7:55 AM
Even as I type this I feel silly. I don't want to bother you, and in some ways this theological discussion is an exercise in futility. You don't want to change my mind, and I don't want to change yours.
If I read your reply correctly, then belief and actions are roughly equal. A believer who, through actions, consistently violates the Lord's commandments, is in trouble, and so is a hypothethical exemplary actor who does not believe.
And this is where I get left out. Those who do not know your truth (again, imagine a person in the remotest corner of the world) are condemned to eternal hellfire for never having heard of Jesus evne if their every action is a model of Christ-like behavior. I can imagine condemning people like me who have had every chance to believe and do not, I cannot imagine a deity that would condemn those who have never had the chance to believe.
Imagining such a God to me, imagines a God with human notions of injustice and unfairness and this makes no sense. God would be limited by rules of its own making, and that makes no sense. The notion that God is limited by requirements of eternity makes no sense.
I try to do the right things out of love. The rest gets complicated. I always ask, why would I yell when I can encourage, and why would I hoard when I can share. The teachings of Jesus inspire me in that regard. But I don't imagine that I will ever believe.
11:32 AM
Duf you are a good person. I have been in the same place you find yourself now.
You don't want to put God in a box, so don't.
Of course he could show mercy for the that remote Christ-like person who have never heard the good news, and perhaps he does.
rules, rules, rules! We always want everything to be fair. Lots of rules.
Our simply minds...every last one of them, can not comprehend his essence.
But I feel His Holy Spirit. I welcome Him in by faith and in God I trust. The more I study His word, the more I come to know, He has never let me down. Not even once.
12:37 PM
There seems to be a problem with people trying to get into God's head.
"I simply cannot believe that being saved is a pre-condition to inheriting the kingdom of God."
"Still, to me, the salvation requirement is therefore absurd (or God is merciless and continues MFN status in heaven as he does on earth - which makes NO sense)."
"I simply cannot believe that God would craft such a system. "
It's when you realize that God is God, not man. Therefore, he doesn't have to use this malfunctioning little thing we call a brain. How can one fool themselves into thinking that their ideas of fairness and 'how is should be' is the way that God ought to 'be'?
Besides, who wants to believe that God isn't any smarter than we are?
The 'What about the pygmies in the jungle?' question isn't a new one. It falls under the same rule. If I don't understand it, then it must be wrong.
2:37 PM
"It's when you realize that God is God, not man. Therefore, he doesn't have to use this malfunctioning little thing we call a brain."
Good Point Maury!
3:36 PM
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